Option 2: Self-Regulation Paper

Using material in textbook readings for this week, create a 3- to 5-page essay to explain the processes of self-regulation of learning described in the video.

Address the following in your essay:

· Affective learning processes

· Internalization processes

Format your paper consistent with APA guidelines.

Please answer this question only  “Affective learning processes” 


Current thinking suggests that we need tomove toward more authentic means ofassessment– that is assessment that is bothintegral to instruction and supportive ofinstruction.

00:02:34Yes, yes.

00:02:35I think one of the reasons that our societyseems to be so caught up and needy ofevaluation is there is that need for harddata.

00:02:46Oh, Yes– numbers.


00:02:48The percentiles and stanines and all.

00:02:50Yes, they’re very impressive.

00:02:51You put them in charts and have all that dataavailable.

00:02:54There seems to be a need to be able toprove in some way that learning has takenplace.

00:02:59And it’s not bad.

00:03:00But what these tests or this data seem toprovide for us is comparative information,but really not instructional information.

00:03:09They don’t seem to do much to help informinstruction or what’s going on in aclassroom.


00:03:12They’re very limited.

00:03:14And for that reason, teachers are movingmore and more toward informal classroomassessment.

00:03:21They may use reading conferences, forexample, where they discuss a student’sreading on a one-to-one basis, or inresponse groups.

00:03:30Or they may use writing conferences.

00:03:32It’s an excellent way to determine howstudents are progressing.

00:03:36And most important, the student is in on theassessment.

00:03:40The students are privy to the kinds ofconcerns that may exist.

00:03:45These means are informal, but they arecertainly not without structure.

00:03:50Occasionally a teacher may decide to take aspecific aspect of writing and look at that,either across the whole group on a certainwriting sample, or across several differentsamples of a particular student’s writing.

00:04:07So that they get a sense of how a student’sdeveloping.

00:04:09And often that targeted process that they’relooking at comes from the conference thatthey’re having with students.


00:04:15It grows right out of the instruction and thenit informs instruction as well.

00:04:19And these are authentic means ofassessment.

00:04:23They not only are integral to instruction, butthey support instruction.

00:04:28Another issue that’s related to assessment, Ithink, is the concern for accountability.

00:04:34And no matter what kind of assessment weestablish, it seems very clear that we haveto involve parents and society at large.


00:04:41They want to know how well schools aredoing.

00:04:45Linda, do you see this as an important issuethat needs to be taken into account?

00:04:50The public feels that it must have a measureto be sure that students are progressing.

00:04:57And that’s a legitimate need and a legitimateconcern.

00:05:01We happen in this country to have adopteda form for that, which is cheap, easy, andconvenient, but not very effective or useful,particularly when it comes the driving forcefor instruction.

00:05:18We have embedded in the test an idea thatkids must memorize a lot of facts and learna lot of rote skills before they can begin toproblem-solve.

00:05:29And so the early grades’ tests areconstructed around that idea.

00:05:34And our kids– You know, you can get thetest scores up.

00:05:36And our kids do reasonably well, evencompared with other countries in the earlygrades.

00:05:40What’s not going on in those years is afoundation for critical thinking and problem-solving.

00:05:46So while the kids are busy learning how tocolor in those little circles with number twopencils, they are not reading books.

00:05:53They are not conversing.

00:05:54They are not learning how to expressthemselves in writing.

00:06:00Yes, I agree.

00:06:00It is a legitimate concern.

00:06:03And Hal, as you’ve already mentioned, thelitmus test is that people want theirevaluation, their measures reported in acomparative way.

00:06:14Yes, percentiles.

00:06:14Sure, percentiles, of course.

00:06:16They want to know how one child compareswith another.

00:06:19How one class, one school, even one districtcompares with another.

00:06:25Real estate prices, taxes, even legislationcan be influenced by test scores.

00:06:30Very broad consequences.


00:06:32Ramsay, tell us is this something relativelynew or has this always been in existence?

00:06:38If you look at the history of theseaccountability measures, where they’recoming from most of the time is from thelegislature or the governor’s office.

00:06:46And the governors want them because theydon’t feel they’ve got compelling data toargue for the state as an economicdevelopment site, or as an attractive placefor people to locate.

00:06:59So there’s a lot of pressure from outside thesystem to install these accountabilitymeasures.

00:07:05The problem is that they’re usedindiscriminately by policymakers and upper-level administrators, who tend not to be verywell-informed about the– some are, butmany are not– about the content of the testand the emphasis of the test.

00:07:26And is that really what they want to use inorder to evaluate their education system?

00:07:32The concern about assessment that’sincreasingly raised is a question of whetherwe want a test to dictate instruction orinstruction to dictate test.

00:07:40Isn’t it the case that heavy emphasis on testscores can tend to dictate textbook content,and also the related instruction?

00:07:48I agree that there is probably too muchindiscriminate use of tests.

00:07:54And that tests are probably inappropriatelyused to drive instruction.

00:08:00I would much rather see the whole thingturned around.

00:08:02I would rather see a sound, competentteacher decide what is important to teach,pursue that, have that be the curriculum ofthe school, or the district, or the state.

00:08:14And then have the test be regarded assomething which is a subservient samplethat comes behind them and measures it,and verifies that that’s indeed what you’retrying to learn.

00:08:24That’s indeed the relationship which isproper, to have the educational decisionscome first and the tests come behind them,to verify those practices as well as possible.

00:08:38But I think what’s happened is that too oftenthe situation is reversed.

00:08:45So much of a premium is put on theimportance of the test that it really is thesource of the decisions.

00:08:52That’s not the way it should be.

00:08:54This is a problem because when instructionis driven by most standardized tests,teaching becomes fragmented, routinized,and [?


00:09:03?] What happens then in the later gradeswhen those skills are called upon, is that thekids don’t have a foundation for it.

00:09:12They don’t have the early experiences thatwould make them successful ascomprehending readers andcommunicators.

00:09:22And that’s where you see, particularly ininternational comparisons, that Americantest scores dropped right to the bottom.

00:09:29We lose ground because we haven’t givenour kids the kind of early gradespreparation.

00:09:35We have to find ways to assess whatchildren know in a more productive fashion.

00:09:40That costs more money.

00:09:42Other forms of testing are more expensive,but we need to begin to put our moneywhere our educational mouth is, so tospeak.

00:09:51If we want accountability for real learning,then we have to invest in assessment thatwill be assessing and encouraging reallearning to occur.

00:10:04I want you to do two separate things in yourlearning log today.

00:10:07The first thing I want you to do is I want youto pick three of these categories right hereand write what you have learned about thedifferences between the North and theSouth pertaining to the three differences thatyou’ve chosen.

00:10:23Then I want you to write your point of view,from either a Southern point of view or aNorthern point of view.

00:10:32And what I mean by that, if you were aperson living in the South, how would youfeel about the differences between thecountry?

00:10:39If you were living in the North, how wouldyou personally feel about all the differencesbetween the country?

00:10:46So first of all, pick your three things andwrite what you’ve learned about thedifferences.

00:10:51And then write your point of view, eitherfrom a Northern point of view or from aSouthern point of view.

00:11:00You have very good ideas.

00:11:02And you’ve got them down on paper.

00:11:05What have you learned from doing this?

00:11:09That the North and South were verydifferent.

00:11:11and I think there were a lot of reasons thatwe had the Civil War.

00:11:16I think it was kind of necessary because theNorth and South were too different.

00:11:23Acting like two different countries, weren’tthey?

00:11:26What do you think about the economybetween the North and South?

00:11:31I think in the North there was more moneybecause there was more things to buy.

00:11:37And there were a lot of banks because that’swhere the bankers wanted to be.

00:11:42Because they knew that if they lent peoplemoney, then they would give it back.

00:11:47Because they had good products to sell topeople Excellent.

00:11:52Excellent thinking.

00:11:54I think that learning logs are better thantaking a standardized test, because of thefact that children learn at different levels.

00:12:01And a learning log lets every level comethrough.

00:12:04Even the highest children and the lowestchildren can express themselves in alearning log, and show their knowledge, andthat they have learned.

00:12:12Hi all!

00:12:13My name is Sarah.

00:12:14I live in Alabama and I am mad.


00:12:17Because my farm is going to be taken awayfrom me because my dad can’t borrow anymoney from a bank because there are nobanks.

00:12:25So unless we sell our slaves, we can’t payoff our debts.

00:12:29But if I sell my slaves, we can’t run the farm.

00:12:31So we’ll just be more in debt.

00:12:33And we don’t have any money to hireworkers.

00:12:36I have divided this piece of paper into littlesquares, one for each child.

00:12:40And as they are doing their learning logs orworking on their projects, I circulate aroundthe room and write down what I see thatthey’re doing.

00:12:47Now in a little while, when they get throughwith their learning logs and we go into theirproject, they will be with their partners.

00:12:53And as I go around the room, I look to see ifthey’re on task, if they’re cooperating withtheir partner, the quality of the ideas thatthey are sharing back and forth, how muchof my time they need to finish their project,how much of my help they need to finish theproject, and what is the quality of the ideasthat the partners are sharing back and forth.

00:13:13And these are all levels of assessment that Iuse.

00:13:16They want some of the money over there.


00:13:19They wanted to be a little bit more industriallike the North, didn’t they?

00:13:23Excellent Christian.

00:13:24You’re on task.

00:13:26You have good writing skills.

00:13:27And you’ve expressed yourself very well.

00:13:30I like using the learning log better becausein a test it’s hard to put what you’ve reallylearned.

00:13:36Because all you do is fill in a blank orsomething.

00:13:39And when you use the learning log, you canput everything that you know about thewhole subject in it.

00:13:45So I like that better.

00:13:49When you’re wrong on a test, she might nothave enough room to say how you werewrong, or not have enough time to explainwhy you were wrong, so you might not knowwhy.

00:14:00But in a learning log, she would usuallycome tell you if you were wrong, or youcould explain what you feel.

00:14:10So really it would be your opinion.

00:14:12And your opinion can’t be wrong.

00:14:14I think they’re really two very importantquestions we have to ask when we deal withthe whole notion of assessment.

00:14:19One is does the assessment really measurewhat students have learned?

00:14:24And secondly, does the estimate reallymeasure how well students apply whatthey’ve learned?

00:14:30And I’d also like to see assessment that isso integral to instruction that practicing orteaching to the assessment is by definitionprecisely what we want to see happening inthe classroom.

00:14:43Teachers will say I have to cover this.

00:14:45And I had a teacher say to me once, a mathteacher, Dawn Overcash from Winchester,Virginia, she said you don’t have to coveranything.

00:14:52You’ve got to uncover a lot.

00:14:56So the demands of the curriculum put theteacher in a bind, between a rock and ahard place.

00:15:02The teacher’s always between a rock and ahard place.

00:15:03The administrator wants to look good.

00:15:06The principal has to look good.

00:15:07How does the principal look good?

00:15:08Test scores.

00:15:10That makes a principal look good.

00:15:11So the teacher is under the gun to get thosetest scores.

00:15:15Now you’ve got a choice here?

00:15:17What’s your objective?

00:15:18Raising test scores and coveringcurriculum?

00:15:21Or is it teaching kids to read and think aboutwhat they read– to write?

00:15:26And can we do both of them?

00:15:27Yes, we can.

00:15:28They’ve been doing it in many schooldistricts.

00:15:30OK, so as I’m reading just a short part toyou, what I’d like to have you do is just lookup here at the chart.

00:15:37And as soon as you figure out the think-aloud that I’ve done, raise your hand.

00:15:41And as you know, what’s the signal that weuse in here when we’re doing a think-aloud?

00:15:46Joel, close the book.

00:15:48So that’s what you’ll be doing too with yourpartner.

00:15:51The name of this chapter is On Parole.

00:15:55And I think about the name of the chapter,On Parole and I think about what parolemeans.

00:15:59It means that somebody’s been releasedfrom some kind of captivity.

00:16:03And my prediction is I think that someone’sgoing to be on parole in this chapter.

00:16:08It might be Captain Long John Silver.

00:16:11It might be Jim.

00:16:12Or it might be the mutineers.


00:16:15What did I just do?


00:16:17You’re making predictions about the chapter.


00:16:20And what was I using to make predictions,Jenny?

00:16:22The title of the chapter.


00:16:23So I was doing that one.

00:16:24That’s great.

00:16:25?All the troubles of the past months seemedto flood away with the running of the brook–” What I’m doing is I’m watching these girlswork cooperatively.

00:16:34And one of them is reading from a novel.

00:16:37And the name of her novel is The Door inthe Wall.

00:16:40And the listener– Anna’s the listener– she’skeeping a checklist of whatever think-aloudstrategies Christa’s using.

00:16:47And these are self-monitoring strategies.

00:16:50And Christa’s thinking out loud the thingsthat she will be thinking to herself as she’sreading by herself.

00:16:56The importance of what we’re doing is that ithelps the children practice the strategiesthat they’ll use when they have troubleunderstanding what they’re reading at homeor at another time in school.

00:17:06And It really does transfer over into differenttypes of reading.

00:17:11And these are the strategies that have beenproven to help children to be more effectivereaders.

00:17:16It helps me because when I take anecdotalcomments on what I see when I see themusing these strategies, it helps me to know ifthey need further help, if we need furtherlessons on it.

00:17:28It also helps me to notice the level of theirreading.

00:17:32For example, while I’m listening to themread and watching them using thestrategies, I’m also thinking about theirreading development.

00:17:40And it helps me to know what kinds oflessons to work on with either small groupsor the class as a whole.

00:17:47How have these strategies helped you,Christa, with your reading?

00:17:51Well they helped us understand the bookmore and helped us understand more wordsfrom medieval times.

00:18:01And this book is more difficult because ofthe language, is that so?

00:18:04So which strategies did you find that wereespecially helpful with understanding theway it was different from our modern way ofspeaking?

00:18:13Checking out words and finding out whatthey meant.

00:18:17And what other strategies did you use onthis sheet that were helpful to you?



00:18:23Then did you check them?

00:18:26Usually I can’t understand some texts verywell.

00:18:28So I use all these strategies to make surethat I understand it.

00:18:33And for the reading group, Mrs. Collins picksus hard books to read.

00:18:37And so I can’t– I have to read the chaptertwo or three times to understand it.

00:18:42And sometimes I could just read the chapteronce.

00:18:45But doing all these strategies, it will makeme understand the chapter better.

00:18:49If we can integrate content and process forinstruction, then we certainly ought to beable to integrate it for assessment.

00:18:56If we do it well, it should be reflected in thescores that students make on thoseinstruments that we create.

00:19:03Scott, what new directions do you seeemerging in the area of assessment?

00:19:07Well, the kind of testing that I aspire to is thekind that students try hard to be successful,the teachers feel are valid methods ofevaluating students’ performance, and thatthe results are used so that they provideimmediate feedback to students andteachers about the direction of learning.

00:19:25If assessment isn’t shared with students,and parents, and teachers, then who is itserving?

00:19:31It’s not being diagnostic.

00:19:32It’s not helping the learning enterprise.

00:19:35And so I like the kind of assessment that’susually informal.

00:19:38It’s usually non-comparative.

00:19:41It’s diagnostic.

00:19:42Because that most directly serves thestudents.

00:19:46Mary does a very good job of integratinginstruction and assessment in herclassroom.

00:19:52She not only provides the atmosphere, butshe provides the mechanisms wherebystudents get involved in self-evaluation andpeer evaluations.

00:20:02Mary, tell us some of the ways in which youintegrate assessment into your dailyactivities.

00:20:08Every Monday they have to write what theirgoal is for the week.

00:20:12In other words, what didn’t work last week?

00:20:14What are you having trouble with?

00:20:16And they have to write that in a sentence.

00:20:19And then on Friday, we get together and talkabout whether the goal was reached or not,or whether they’re going to have to extend itto the following week.

00:20:27They also write on that goal sheet which wecall it, what was easy for them, what washard, and what was just right.

00:20:36And anytime they take a test, if it’s acommercial test as far as math isconcerned, or a test that I make up, I willhave them give me their reaction to the test– what was easy, what was hard, how didyou feel about the test, what do you thinkyou knew, what do you think you’re gonnaneed extra help in?

00:20:52So you’re constantly trying to get feedbackfor them for them to internalize and toevaluate what they’re doing in the class.

00:21:00This is a good example of what we’relooking for regarding the use of instructionas a form of authentic assessment.

00:21:08It’s also a good example of how assessmentcan inform instruction, It seems like theconsequences of this is that students beginto develop more ability to think about theirown thinking, reflect on why they’re right andwhy they’re wrong.


00:21:23Both are important.

00:21:25An important consideration in testing is theextent to which subject, content and processskills can be integrated and measured.

00:21:34Do you find both of these elements presentin testing programs?

00:21:37I think that depends on the subject thatyou’re talking about substantially.

00:21:43Obviously, in reading, most tests areintended to measure processes– processesof being able to find information in a piece oftext and remember it, and being able to askor answer questions about it later.

00:21:58If you go into an area like science or socialstudies, the test is primarily content.

00:22:09You’re measuring the kids’ understanding ofconcepts, of facts, of relationships.

00:22:16As a matter of fact, tests in those areas arecriticized because they don’t incorporateprocess skills.

00:22:23Clearly, educators recognize the importanceof assessing for both content and process.

00:22:31And students need to be offered a variety ofways to demonstrate what they know andwhat they can do with what they know.

00:22:39Alice, tell us some of the ways that youassess students when you’re teaching forboth process and content.

00:22:47They can be reading books for pleasure.

00:22:50That’s one way of using print.

00:22:51They can be doing research, as those twoguys were who were finding out about armsand weaponry in the Bronze Age in Greece.

00:23:01They can be using print to discuss someaspect of the Odyssey.

00:23:07And next door there were some who wereusing print for directions, who were makinga mask.

00:23:14And so Alice, your students have clearlydemonstrated their ability to use a widevariety of text materials for a variety ofpurposes.

00:23:24And through her ongoing observations overtime, Alice is able to assess thedevelopment of those abilities.

00:23:32And teaching it gives an emphasis to reallyestablish a purpose with some inclusion ofan emphasis on cognition.

00:23:40It’s really the kind of instruction we’re lookingfor, I think.

00:23:44Alice demonstrates how to incorporate anemphasis on cognition as part of a lesson.

00:23:51She clearly establishes purpose.

00:23:53She engages students in some importantactivities.

00:23:56And she watches how they’re responding tothose activities that she sets up.

00:24:01And then she gives students an opportunityto think about how they themselves areperforming.

00:24:07She thinks about their activities and thethought process that go in it.

00:24:12And she encourages them to also thinkabout their own thought processes.

00:24:17Scott, do you agree that this form ofassessment is vital to teaching?

00:24:20I think informal assessment is vital.

00:24:23Because without that ongoing monitoring ofprogress, teachers aren’t sure whetherstudents are picking up in the curriculumthat they’re delivering.

00:24:30And we can’t wait for the end of the week, orthe end of the month, or the end of the yearto find out if our teaching had an impact.

00:24:37That’s part of the value of the metaphor ofcoaching is that it’s an ongoing daily processin which instruction and assessment arelinked.

00:24:45They’re interchangeable, almost.

00:24:47For example, if we’re teaching a sixth gradera lesson on social studies, one of the thingsthat we’d like to do is to make sure that thecontent of the lesson is mastered.

00:24:58The other thing we’d like to do is to makesure that the student has thought deeplyabout the material.

00:25:03And so we would like to use writingstrategies, thinking strategies, speaking andlistening, and integrate them into the activity.

00:25:10Now one of the things that good teachers dois to use authentic activities, like projects orgroup activities, that combine all these skillstogether.

00:25:19As teachers observe students workingtogether, they’ll see the processes ofthinking as well as the products of theirunderstanding.

00:25:26Yes, and this integrated emphasis oncontent and process is important acrosssubjects and across grade levels in contentarea classes and also in reading classes.

00:25:36Sandra, can you describe the thinkingprocesses that you and Allison weremodeling in your reading groups?

00:25:42We predicted.

00:25:44We brought in prior knowledge.

00:25:47We talked about what we already knewabout the book.

00:25:50And then as we began to read, we talkedout loud.

00:25:54We thought out loud.

00:25:56Because we want the children to realize thatwhen you read, you don’t just look at wordsand letters and just run through them.

00:26:05You think as you read.

00:26:07A good reader thinks as you read.

00:26:10How do you help students think about theprocesses they are using?

00:26:14We are giving voice to all the processes thatchildren normally use when they read tobecome skillful readers.

00:26:22But it has to be given a voice.

00:26:24They have to bring it to a conscious level, toreally say yes I do that as a reader.

00:26:30And once they see themselves as doingthese things, as having these strategies,then they become better readers.

00:26:38Because they are in control.

00:26:40It puts it with them.

00:26:41It’s not somebody else controlling theirlearning.

00:26:43They have something that allows them tolearn.

00:26:46They have the strategies.

00:26:48When students become aware of thesestrategies, they are able to take thatknowledge and apply it to new situations.

00:26:56They’re empowered to become independentlearners.

00:27:00Katherine, you work with students with verydiverse abilities.

00:27:05Do you ever find the need to help them toapproach specific tasks?

00:27:10The students in our district especially aredoing poorly on tests that are givennationwide.

00:27:17And one of the things that I think they find isa problem is that some of the students don’tknow how to actually begin a thinkingprocess.

00:27:26And if I take a class and begin with thinkingactivities, before they actually get into areading activity, they’ll have an opportunityto think about the idea so that they canbroaden what they already know, and thenalso add to what they don’t know.

00:27:47So if they are predicting, validating,summarizing and anything else that theycan do, I think it’ll improve their test scores.

00:27:57And that we need to do.

00:27:58Yes, and when students learn these skills,they can perform well in all situations,whether it be instructional settings orassessment settings.

00:28:08Predicting, and summarizing, and analyzing,the kind of thinking about thinking, all theseare cognitive processes that really helpstudents become independent learners.

00:28:19Students help themselves.

00:28:20And they really become self-evaluators.

00:28:24Mary Ann, you seem to be interested indeveloping your students’ abilities tobecome independent learners.

00:28:33How do you do this in the subject ofchemistry?

00:28:35I don’t think chemistry’s going to stay withthem forever.

00:28:37In fact, I’m fairly sure that it won’t stay withthem forever.

00:28:41But I think if I can help them look through abook, read a picture, think about ideas theymay have heard about, tie it together withsomething that’s happening currently– Ifthey can get the feeling that I can work withsomebody else and figure something out,when they get in a job and they’re throwninto a group situation, they’ll have someexperience with that.

00:29:04They’ll know how to introduce their ownideas, how to sit back, maybe how to lead agroup.

00:29:10So those are some of the overall goals thatworry me.

00:29:14Cooperative learning requires a high level ofinterdependence among students.

00:29:19It forces them to make decisions betweentheir own personal needs and the dynamicsof the group.

00:29:27Withholding judgment, analyzing, andsharing their ideas are paramount.

00:29:33And determining how well students usethose interactional skills, whether or not theteacher’s present, is really another key toassessing the effectiveness of instruction.

00:29:43Another way of looking at this is determininghow students respond to the work that yougive them in their literature responsegroups, that kind of analysis.

00:29:55The teacher’s not present.

00:29:56Look at the product.

00:29:58Alice, tell us how you use these techniquesin your classroom.

00:30:02You have to start by observing kids becausewhen you observe kids you first begin todiscover what it is they already know.

00:30:09So that you don’t have to go through theseredundancies, and where the gaps are, andhow you can begin to fill up the gaps.

00:30:21Because you can’t do it for all of them inexactly the same way.

00:30:25And anybody can observe.

00:30:27It’s not a special– I mean I’m not a virtuosoobserver.

00:30:32You observe.

00:30:33You watch.

00:30:33You listen.

00:30:34You think.

00:30:34I do a lot of writing.

00:30:36I keep a log, a journal, lots and lots and lotsof writing.

00:30:42Part of my observation of what kids do is toread the stuff that they write.

00:30:46And they do a fair amount of writing in thisroom because it’s something that I value.

00:30:50All of that gets put together in my head.

00:30:53I talk with the student teacher who does herobservations.

00:30:57I talk with my colleagues who’ve seen thesekids in other contexts in other years.

00:31:02All of that forms a body of knowledge that Ihave about this youngster.

00:31:06And then I put that all together and I figureout what I can offer that would stimulate,challenge, provoke thought.

00:31:17And then I record what happens.

00:31:19And then I meet with parents and I tell them.

00:31:22By observing what your students do inactual practice, you can see whether or notthey are in fact exhibiting the techniquesyou’ve demonstrated in the classroom.

00:31:31What’s implied by authentic assessment is ameasurement of students’ learning throughtests or instructional processes that arereally central to the cognitive and affectivesituations we want students to learn.

00:31:43Assessments are consistent with instruction,the instruction that has taken place.

00:31:48Authentic measures support the instructionalprocess.

00:31:50They don’t distort it.

00:31:52This can be done when teachers set goalswith their students and work with them tomonitor their progress.

00:31:58And they can use c